Commencal 5.5 frame configuration philosophy

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February 07, 2012, 07:37:18 AM

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[strak]

OK maybe getting a little deep here, but does anyone full understand the frame configuration on the 5.5?

I was looking at the Orange 5 aswell, and cant understand why the 5.5 does have a straighter seatpost down to the BB to mount the front mech aswell, rather than a seperate mount adding unecessary weight?

Also the rocker to the rear shocker, is this to isolate the shock form the primary load path, unlike the orange 5 where it is line? I heard on the Orange this may mean more shock servicing due to this...
Certainly well tucked away from flying rocks on the 5.5 aswell 

So ultimately, what makes the 5.5 such a better ride than say the Orange 5, they're both single pivot effectively as far as I can see with the main pivot in a similar place. The only difference been the additional rocker to the rear shock on the 5.5?

awaiting enlightenment!?
oh, any good sites explaining designs 4 bar v pivot etc? Checked the commencal site but ne parlez pas francais 

[druidh]

Have you seen the new Orange ST4?




Remind you of anything???


While I don't profess to understand the technicalities, I'll just say that the suspension my Meta 5 is much better than that on my older Stump FSR120, 4-bar and all.

[twin]

the files are hid in there somewhere in english too, if not try to search for em online.

well, in terms of the front mech issue, that would totally mess up the angles of the seat tube if your implied weight saver were to pass. i say implied because i believe one would actually need more frame material in order to make the extra front mech "pole" obsolete by making the front triangle larger than the current design allows for. anyway, the weight punishment for the "pole" is pretty minimal. they want a low bb, a set and continuous seatpost and a tight cockpit - and thus this is prob the best ay to achieve all these parameters to the highest degree. i guess the pivots location also plays a part as well as it is an easy way to incoorperate it into the frame, yet make it stiff and light.

the idea of the rocker is to control the leverage ratios and make these perform in a way to get a more refined stroke than a regular directly driven sp design would do. i'm no suspension guru, but it seems like one would be able to fine tune the rear suspension of a sp design to a much higher degree with this kinda design compared to say a cannondale prophet were most of the tuning has to be done to the shock, meaning one is able fine tune the leverage ratios throughout the stroke, meaning have different ratios throughout the stroke, and this combined with shocks tuned to frame makes for the superb rear wheel suspension. it's prob also effective in limiting the forces that act on the suspension, meaning minimizing the rider induced forces and focusing on the suspension action relative to forces acting on it from the ground/terrain. i'm not saying i fully get how it works, but work it does.

[troh]

OK maybe getting a little deep here, but does anyone full understand the frame configuration on the 5.5?

...

So ultimately, what makes the 5.5 such a better ride than say the Orange 5, they're both single pivot effectively as far as I can see with the main pivot in a similar place. The only difference been the additional rocker to the rear shock on the 5.5?

Swingarm have a connection between side next to rear wheel. That is far more back than in Orange where the connection is where shock is mounted. That makes swingarm stiffer. And due to that swingarm design, seatpost must get more to front than in Orange.

[Tomm]

meaning one is able fine tune the leverage ratios throughout the stroke, meaning have different ratios throughout the stroke, and this combined with shocks tuned to frame makes for the superb rear wheel suspension.

I think so too...  It also means that an air shock can be fine-tuned throughout the travel, I.e. very active over little bumps but without the tendency to 'ramp-up' too much towards the end of travel as happens on an Orange five.  The commencal is much more active and the travel is probably more 'linear' than the Orange five/C'dale design - whether you see that as an advantage is up to you. 

[Whatsit]

The shock on the Orange 5 is also structural and gets side loads transferred to/through it. Probably what they mean by the Orange may need more shock servicing.