Warranty on my swingarm - Is this fair?

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May 22, 2012, 02:59:51 AM

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[Tomm]

Right, so my 2007 Meta 5.5.3 is very nearly a year old (it will be in August) and recently I had a bit of a mare.

I was riding at Mountain Mayhem and was just starting a new lap.  I don’t quite know what happened - I was riding uphill at fairly leisurely pace, when everything went crunch and I saw that the rear mech had been pulled upwards and backwards by the chain, and was now pointing at about the 10 O’clock position.  The hanger did not shear / snap as you would expect and it bent backwards with the derailleur.  Not only did the hanger (£20), XT mech (£35), and XTR chain (£21) destroy themselves, it looks as though tension on the hanger then pulled the dropout part of the swingarm out of shape, which means that the hanger no longer sat properly in the frame, and the bent part of the dropout actually fouled the rear wheel.  Pretty bad luck for just riding along I'd say.  N.B.  The whole drivetrain (cranks, cassette, R Mech, chain) is less than a month old.

I sent the swingarm back to Merlin (where the bike came from) and they have said they won't warranty it because:

unfortunately the damage has not been due to product failure but due to impact damage on the frame dropout.

This is absolutely NOT the case - the damage to the frame was caused by the hanger failing to snap - although this is, of course, my word against theirs.

However, Merlin have said that they have straightened the dropout and fitted a new hanger, and will return the swingarm back to me free of charge.  In fairness this is actually pretty decent of them given their assumption that the damage was caused by 'impact on the frame dropout'. 

--------------------------------

That's the story, I was just wondering if anyone thinks I should take this further and try and get a better fix (I.e. a replacement swingarm) from Commencal themselves?  I'm just a bit concerned that the dropout will be a) not in perfect shape and b) weaker now it's been bent and bent back.  I guess I'm just worried that the swingarm will break properly in the near future and the frame will be just out of warranty. 

Any thoughts welcome.

[Vic-Tim.com]

Not wanting to be the bad man...don't shoot the messenger and all that...but your warranty is with the supplier of the bike, not the manufacturer. Commie are rather nice guys and seem to always keep everyone happy, but they hand over the responsibility to the distributor, who in turn hand it over to the dealer.

Even if you claim as 'not fit for the purpose intended'....you are still only doing this with Merlin.

I'm not going to be silly and make any comment on how, what or why anything happened, but also remember that any other damages to your bike are purely consequential and are hence not covered by any warranty. Annoying as it is, this is the case with all warranties.

So really I wouldn't suggest you try to take this further as it does sound like you have actually got the best deal. By all means keep an eye on it, work closely with Merlin ( they seem to have a very good and trustworthy reputation ), and ultimately put it down to bad luck?

Just my view though

Tim S

[bong69uk]

Hmm that seems a bit rubbish customer service if u ask me,fair enough they have been decent enough to fix it but i reckon (like u said) it will def have now weakened the effected area and it may well be a dodgy area for the future.
It maybe worth giving steve b a shout at real cycles,cos he is a top commie dealer and im sure he would give you some advice on the topic.

[keef]

Hi Tomm

MMmmm. Yes the bike shop must take responsibility....BUT, it is up to the bike shop to put the effort in to send the frame back to the Distributor/Manufacturer so they can decide whether there is a warranty fault or not.

How many bike shops have a full warranty department, like Madison (distributor) and expertise as Commencal? and can inspect and appraise conclusively and accurately.

I would be friendly and be thankful for your LBS support, but I would not accept there diagnosis!! In my view any shop not willing to send off the distributor and follow up in the right process is just being lazy and un professional. AND NOT SUPPORTING PROFESSIONALLY (not hammer and spanner) there customers.

I speak from experience, as I was one of the largest Commencal Dealers in UK (until I sold business this year - 'not mentioning name'!).

I had these very things happen to two 2006 frames, both Warranty with new swingarms!

ADDED......I am not saying that 'Tomms' frame should be 'warranty' but at least treat his frame individaully, and get it looked by everyone who should!

Sorry, rant over...
Keef

[Tomm]

Vic-Tim :  I kind of agree with you and I think that Merlin have probably been helpful for the most part.  I am slightly irked that they have just gone ahead and straightened it which (as Keef said) seems like a half-assed bodge rather than an actual fix.  Since I'm in no great hurry to get the frame back I think I should explore the other avenues before accepting Merlin's opinion. 

any other damages to your bike are purely consequential and are hence not covered by any warranty. Annoying as it is, this is the case with all warranties.

Do you mean that a failure of the hanger cannot be held responsible for damage to the frame?  Surely Commencal sell the frame and hanger to be used together, and as such are a complete 'unit' so the consequences of one breaking the other should be warranty-able?  Obviously bike warranties are more often a 'goodwill' thing rather than a law, but I mean how much can a swingarm cost to the manufacturer?  A few quid, I'd imagine? 

Keef - That's interesting - who would you suggest I get in touch at Madison, and how do you think I should approach it?

I'd be interested to hear Steve B's opinion, although maybe he isn't keen to get involved - I wouldn't blame him!  I'm sure he reads this 

[steveb]

I more or less know the reason for the damage, and it's not warranty. To put it simply it's just plain old bad luck, like what happens to everyone from time to time. The hanger is not designed to snap, it's designed to bend when a force hits it from the side, if a force hits it's inline with a rear ward direction the mech hanger can't bend or snap, it's designed to be pretty rigid in that direction, else it'd flap all over the place when you change gear.

Normally in these situations the mech snaps, but SRAM re-inforced their mechs last year, meaning they don't snap as easily anymore. Not Commencals fault, not SRAMs fault, not Merlins fault, not your fault, just bad luck.

If the rear of the frame is badly damaged sometimes C will replace it for goodwill, but if it's fixable, the shops are generally advised to fix it, as Merlin have done, and as I've done on occasion.

Bottom line, Merlin say it'll be fine, they cover the warranty so ride on and stop worrying.

[bong69uk]

yaaay!! i knew steve b would offer some good words of wisdom here!!   

[Tomm]

I just realised that the warranty is for two years, right?  Not one as I originally thought...  In which case I shall stop worrying because the frame is only a year old, and if their fix is really defective I'm sure it'll become apparent in the next year. 

[doml]

That'll learn you for riding uphill, bloody xcers. Seriously though if theyve straightened it and fitted a new one I wouldnt worry. I had a rather large stack and managed to bend the non-replaceable mech hanger on my M1 a few years ago. Had it bent back and the threading retapped and afaik its still working fine now.

You sure you werent changing gear under load

[Tomm]

Yeah I'm quite sure.  It was just up a gradual incline, my drivetrain was making the odd clicking noise but I thought nothing of it.  The next thing I know the pedals jam and the mech was in a right state. 

I've just been on the blower to Merlin and I'm just gonna get it sent back to me. 

[JT]

I've had exactly the same problem with my meta 5.5 and as Tomm said, Merlin were fantastic at offering to bend it back to shape without charging labour and put it down to wear and tear on a bike. However, I have refused to accept that. The hanger is (supposedto be) desiged to snap and protect your frame. If, given the first chance, it doesn't perform as it should, who is to say it wont do it again. I would have less of an issue if my bike was not brand new.

The frame is aluminium, and will therefore have stress lines where the bend was.

We'll see what Commensal say, but I have heard that this is not the first occurance of this.

[doml]

It must be frustrating, but think your being hopeful, imho replaceable mech hanger is there so if you do damage the mech hanger you dont have to replace the whole swngarm. Its not there to provide a weak point from every single direction. But good luck with trying to get a replacement from commencal.

[clanton]

imho replaceable mech hanger is there so if you do damage the mech hanger you dont have to replace the whole swngarm.

But that is the whole point - this is exactly what didn't happen. The hanger didn't snap, the swingarm bent and got damaged. On looking at the bike in question the design of the swingarm is such that it encases the hanger - this problem is in fact ALWAYS going to happen every time any force acts in that direction. It is a design flaw. The bike is one month old.

Merlin hinted that it was not the first time they've dealt with this problem - from this thread its clear that is happens fairly frequently!

[steveb]

"imho replaceable mech hanger is there so if you do damage the mech hanger you dont have to replace the whole swngarm."

That's a bit like saying seat belts or airbags in cars exist to stop me getting hurt in a crash. They might minimize the injury, but they can't protect you from, say, getting crushed limbs!

Mech hangers are designed toto be a "get out of jail free" card if you like, they are not a guarantee against any damage being caused to the rear end of the bike in a crash of mis-shift situation.

If you get everyone in the supply chain on your side you might get a new rear end as a goodwill gesture, but it's not a warranty issue so your not going to be able to demand one.

[doml]

Steve, thats what I meant just didnt say it clearly. As in when you didnt have replaceable mech hangers, you didnt have any option but to sort the whole rear end out (or frame on an HT). Replaceable mech hangers mean that sometimes you might get away with just replacing that. Certainly not designed to break in every single situation (otherwise theyd have to be made of glaass and be pretty useless for hanging a mech off of).